Transcript: Christopher Krebs on Facing the Nation, March 12, 2023

The following is a transcript of an interview with cybersecurity expert and analyst Christopher Krebs that aired on Face the Nation on Sunday, March 12, 2023.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Now let’s turn to Chris Krebs, former director of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency. He is also a pundit and analyst for CBS News. It’s good that you’re here.

CHRIS KREBS: Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Before we get into what’s going on with the Silicon Valley bank, I want to ask you about what happened with this data breach. On Wednesday, we learned that some members of the House and Senate were told that personal data, including home addresses and social security numbers, had been taken from a D.C. health insurance provider. Like 56,000 people. And then this information is sold…

KREBS: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Online. Who is behind this?

KREBS: So, a cybercriminal known as IntelBroker, and it’s not immediately clear who this person is, where he lives. But they have been involved in previous data breaches and attempts to sell information on certain darknet marketplaces. And the point here is that you steal information and someone buys it and then can monetize it through scams, identity theft and the like. So, IntelBroker has previously stated that they have access to US federal agencies. However, this is a different case where they actually took the information, put it on the internet and made it available for sale. The FBI managed to sneak in and buy some of that information. It is not clear if it was removed at the other end when this information was purchased. But you know, that’s exactly what’s happening in this very, very dynamic cybercrime ecosystem.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What else does the US government need to do to protect itself? You know, I mean, some of these staffers and legislators are in danger. How do you protect against this? And this is a statesman? Is there any involvement?

KREBS: You know, it’s not… again, it’s not clear who the actor is. This is a cybercriminal. It is possible that this is a cybercriminal associated with Russia. Russia has a very inclusive and liberal environment for cybercriminals. In fact, it helps Russia’s broader strategic goal to undermine confidence in the US’s ability to protect citizens. It actually brings in a significant amount of income in Russia. But what happens next is the question. So first, some markets where IntelBroker sold this information have reportedly actually deactivated the IntelBroker account, in part because those markets don’t want undue attention. They don’t want the FBI to come and shut it down. Therefore, they try to stay out of sight, the same thing happened after the collapse of the colonial pipeline, which we talked about a year and a half ago. So what happens now, if the information is available for sale, who will buy it?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

KREBS: Probably, again, scammers, but also possibly the security services of our adversaries who want to get information about members of Congress to create their own portfolios and dossiers. Politicians could buy it for opposition research and other and other purposes. But there is hope that by shielding them from the market and subversive FBI operations, they can ensure that it does not become a weapon. This is not information that is used for nefarious purposes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I know you deal with tech companies and start-ups. A number of businesses that had accounts or loans with Silicon Valley Bank are now very concerned.

KREBS: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: They don’t have access to cash, not even to pay employees. What do you hear? What is the level of panic here?

KREBS: The biggest problem right now, I think, is these companies — and again, that’s the 50% of US VC-backed companies —

MARGARET BRENNAN: Venture capital.

KREBS: – in Silicon Valley. This is approximately 60,000 companies. The problem they are facing right now is that they do not have access to information in addition to access to their money. I spoke to a number of companies that are serviced by SVB, Silicon Valley Bank and they haven’t heard anything over the weekend. However, here’s the problem. Most companies pay salaries on the 15th and the last day of the month. The 15th is Wednesday. To get paid next Wednesday, you must have that money in the bank tomorrow for processing. Without access to information about what money they will have access to tomorrow for payroll purposes, they are now lining up alternative sources of funding. In some cases, we see predatory loans. So it would be very helpful, as Congressman Khanna pointed out, if we could clear things up. And, as the Secretary of State mentioned, today there are some guarantees for these savers. If the deal goes through today and access to funding is open tomorrow, that’s fantastic. But we need to have some confidence, and these company leaders need information, they need clarity on what’s going on so they can take care of their employees or otherwise…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

KREBS: We’re going to see layoffs in the tech industry next week.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you heard the Secretary of the Treasury say that we’re in touch, or through the FDIC, we’re in touch with contributors. But you also publicly say that clear statements of confidence are needed to strengthen the position…

KREBS: Well, again-

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you didn’t get it.

KREBS: We’re not getting that right now. And I think this is again what Congressman Khanna was talking about at the speed of Twitter. Information spreads so fast. Yes, you can have bank runs. But you also need to get that information into the hands of the 60,000 companies that serve there, over 250,000 FDIC insured limits, so they can tell their employees as well. Nobody wants to miss a paycheck.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

KREBS: And the salaries of millions of employees are at stake next week.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I really thought it was interesting, because some people told me, you know, these are medium, small companies, start-ups. It’s not big, bad Wall Street, yes, it’s politically easier to convince the public if you want to step in and help small businesses. But what’s going on with the politics of it?

KREBS: Well, kind of, I think most of your viewers probably didn’t even hear about Silicon Valley Bank until Thursday night and Friday morning. But it is indeed the economic engine of the United States of America. It is the engine of innovation. This is a great future, this is a technological competition that we have talked about with China and others. That’s where it happens. These are the front lines, we really need to ensure the confidence of depositors, again, not the bank’s shareholders, but the bank’s depositors. So next week we won’t see any further forays into tech-friendly banks rather than systemically important banks. We really need this diversity in the banking system. Thus, we do not concentrate risks at the top and have a much more fragile banking industry.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The next few hours could be pivotal. And we’ll be watching for any updates on this. I know that we have heard the Prime Minister of Israel speak about this. The British Chancellor of the Exchequer, now Chancellor of the Exchequer, spoke about this. Let’s see what happens in the next few hours. Chris, it’s good that you have the analysis.

KREBS: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll be back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us.

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